Hi Carl Munson (from the HL team) here...

We sent out an email last night asking you, our members, to spread the word and help us boost membership.

The whole message is re-printed below but some of the content inspired one of our members - Catherine - to ask:

Subject: Is "Holistic Local" here to spread love and peace or discontent?

"I don't see where berating politicians or religious beliefs of others that
don't see things exactly your way will help the situation. My view is that
we are all one and anything that separates us adds to the polarity.

What can I expect from Holistic Local?

Many blessings, Catherine"

What do you think....

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Dear (member)

Thank you for being a part of Holistic Local - it means a lot to us that you 'get' the vision. You are a very special person in a very strange world!

This is a place where holistically-minded and open-hearted people can meet, make friends and get access to resources for living a healthier, more peaceful and sane lifestyle. Over 5,000 businesses and nearly 700 social networking members can't be wrong.

It's a beautiful planet, but every day it seems the excesses of power-crazy politicians, narrow-minded religions and greedy corporations are making life harder for (extra)ordinary people - like us - just to go about our business and live a simple and joyful existence.

You may or may not realise it, but Holistic Local has revolutionary potential for us (extra)ordinary people - giving us a place to network, support each other and turn our backs on those negative influences that are destroying our world and making life a misery for millions - our time has come.

It's really great to have you as part of the Holistic Local 'tribe'. But the thing is, there's strength in numbers - and we need more numbers...

To be a truly powerful force in changing the world for good, we need to have many more members just like you. So please tell your friends, family and coleagues about us right now and let's get this world-changing, peace-making, heart-opening, mind-expanding, love-making, life-changing, soul-mating, health-improving, joy-boosting, spirit-lifting, party started!

Send this special link below to people who you care about right now - let's do this thing and create the world we want together!

http://www.holisticlocal.co.uk/members/invite/100012

Love

Andy, Nick, Jason & Carl at Holistic Local
http://www.holisticlocal.co.uk

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I agree that we should all be here for one another. I am a very strong Christian and my beliefs may be counter to many on this board but I dont desire to sit here and argue to pluses and minuses about everything I agree or disagree with. I am here to learn.... My politics are no matter to spreading love and joy in the universe. As a matter of fact - if I started talking about politics I could very well fall into the hate and dispair category. Although I am not sure the deeper purpose of expressing the political side of things in the e-mail - I think this is a wonderful resource and am happy it is available.

Many Blessings
Philip Foster

Last edited: 30-08-2006 04:27:21 PM

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Can I say ... "Amen!"

I find most Christians shoot their wounded... but dont get me started... I am not one of those...

Good to see you too David.... your words are a great encouragement to me.

Phil

Last edited: 1-11-2006 03:02:28 PM

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Hi guys/gals,

Just wanted to add my thoughts on this subject - and I've bolded (above) the wording that I love in this promotion.

Words have power. The Universe was (and still is) - according to the great books of spiritual tradition - created by the Word, God's word, Aum ... a sound/vibration at any rate.

We are creative beings, created in the image of the Source of all things - again, according to the great books. And according to Wave-Particle CoExistence theory, light turns from a wave into a particle when it is observed. That to me shows that what we focus on becomes 'real'. (I have references I can forward you if you'd like).

So to me, living in this world of duality, where there is the choice of focusing on and creating joy or pain, my choice is joy! That's why I'm a member. Holistic Local is a fantastic creation that is giving us extra-ordinary beings the opportunity to create what we want: a holistic, healthy, happy life for ourselves, our loved ones - and our world.

I would therefore prefer a choice of focus to be on the positive in future promotions, so that all our actions confirm our intention.

Let's keep the word going out there! Holistic Local for everyone!

Aannsha

Last edited: 31-08-2006 02:32:45 AM

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I agree with you on what you are perceiving David.


Well, I feel we are all extra-ordinary beings and that the more we affirm that, and give other people 'permission' to feel it too, the quicker we can all get on and live our lives as the divine individuals we truly are! LOL

Aannsha

PS I'm working on the the humility thing, but I'm a Leo, and its a lesson of mine LOL - love me, love me.

Last edited: 1-11-2006 03:03:44 PM

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Then the question becomes: what WILL help the situation? If there isn't anyone brave enough to risk public condemnation by speaking their truth, what hope is there for change in humanity? I think pretty much everyone using this website would agree that the world is in a very dire situation right now, at the beginning of the 21st century, and like it or not the largest of these problems are being caused by rampant and widespread political corruption and narrow-minded religious belief systems. It simply isn't enough to say, "Oh, but we're all one, so I love and accept you. Please continue to destroy this beautiful planet as you see fit." Throwing love and light out as a solution to these problems won't affect anything. Whilst we may all be one at the highest spiritual level, we live in a universe of polarity, separation, differentiation and individuation. To deny this is to deny the very purpose of our existence here. We must never, ever become afraid to speak our truth, or be silenced by the majority of people who we know will probably attempt to cow or humiliate us into submission. If you don't think that politics or religion are two of the biggest threats to our species' continued survival, then you need only turn on your television and see what's happening in the Middle East right now. Pointing out the problem is simply the beginning of finding a solution, and solutions are so desperately what we need right now. And these solutions, I hope, is what you can expect from Holistic Local.

Last edited: 1-09-2006 12:24:52 PM

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Great posts everyone, it's interesting how I find myself agreeing with just about everyone, although I do think it's a bit of a stretch to see that we might be intentionally spreading discontent with that particular email.

However, I do think that sometimes there's absolutely nothing wrong with frustration or discontent because those feelings are what often spur us into action to make important and necessary changes in our lives.

I think it's absolutely right to trust in God as David said; however in my view that doesn't mean sitting idly by waiting for everything to just happen. We're all conscious creators and that means being proactive in the creation process and knowing what we want to create. And how do you know what you want to create? It's usually from feeling discontent about what you don't want.

I think it's fair to say that the social networking aspect of Holistic Local was born out of frustration and discontent because I was so fed up with the fact that I was rarely meeting people who were on a similar wavelength to me (not locally anyway). Had I not felt that discontent then we wouldn't all be here having this discussion.

Discontent definitely serves a useful purpose sometimes, and I don't see that it's necessarily the opposite of love or peace. Discontent does not mean hatred, war, or fear. It means recognising your situation is less than perfect so that you can then go about creating a reality that is beautiful and perfect.

Andy

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HL is here.

Like a gun, or money it can be used 'positively' or 'negatively'.

But, that said, is any one of us big enough to truly make that judgement call?

I think not. I just live according to my 'lights'. When I start thinking about whether I'm spreading peace or discontent, I've already lost the plot.

'this or that 'is not the problem; the problem is being troubled by the question.

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gosh guys and gals! what a lot of thinking, and writing, this has generated!

I relly don't htink our friends at HL meant harm. They don't need the collected wisdom of the ages (?) to come down on their heads for one email.

I do agree the email sounds a little elitist, a little separatist, and that we don't need to give our energy to the negative, especially by defining it so sharply (crazy politicians, narrow religions etc). However, our friends at HL are entitled to their opinion! If you don't want to send this email on to anyone, then don't! And Jason - I am sure we would all agree that some people must sometimes risk (whatever) by speaking out. The only debate to me is, was this email the place? Place a post - please. PR for HL....don't know.

Here is my aim. Speak your truth, but don't slag anyone off if you can help it. Try not to generalise. Two of the major reasons for escalating arguments both personally and 'out there', are (1) generalising, and (2) exaggerating, eg. saying always or never. If in doubt, SAY NOTHING! and yes - this forum will still exist!


I always believe it's good when something makes us think. Would it be possible to keep the number of WORDS to a minimum? I have an old cup with the inscription 'say little and think much'. As a wordy person myself (and maybe you, too, David?) I constantly try to take this to heart. Let's let others have time to think, sometimes a reply is not necessary.

Helen x

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The problem is that it's hard to criticize anything without sounding separatist and/or elitist. But there's nothing wrong with being a separatist, and elitism only comes into play if you enjoy pointing these things out because it makes you feel superior to others. The trick is to offer constructive criticism, and not just rant on and on about the array of problems. It's okay to point out that the world is in dire straits, and that the causes of this include modern day religious and political systems. This should be fairly obvious to anyone with two brain cells working in tandem. No harm done there. You don't give energy to negative things merely by pointing out their existence, but you do give them your tacit permission to continue on unabated if you refuse to so much as acknowledge them. Sometimes sharp words and sharp actions provide the momentum we need to establish and affect real change within the world.

I don't think it matters, to be honest. The purpose of any such opinion piece is to foment discussion of its topic matter between those who may agree and those who disagree. I think it's done its job in that regard so far. If not here, then where?

Yes, it is good to always be as specific as possible. As for not slagging people off, that can be tricky territory. For example, I think George W. Bush is a liar, crook, mass murderer, traitor and downright moron who should never, ever have gotten into any kind of public office in any country, let alone the United States of America. Is that slagging him off, or just pointing out what I believe to be the cold, hard facts of the matter? As long as it's part of an intelligent, rational discussion, the opinions I'm conveying are valid topics for further debate, and I can provide evidence to back up my claims. I think it would only constitute "slagging someone off" if I couldn't provide such evidence.

Anyway, just my two and a half cents worth

Jason.

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Where did I say that?

Last edited: 1-11-2006 03:06:13 PM

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oh don't worry about that.

Anyway, my opinion is somewhere in the middle.

I do agree that the ultimate lesson in life is love, and sending love and light out into the world is absolutely important, and I'm sure Jason ultimately agrees with that.

But I also see where Jason is coming from. Love and light doesn't always affect change, particularly when you're sending it towards extremely dark energies. They don't want it, and if anything it just makes them angrier. You shouldn't always give to people what they don't ask for. You can send all the love and light you want to the likes of Dick Cheney but I don't personally think it will make much difference.

You have to tread very carefully within the "new age" scene. It's been highly corrupted by negative forces and much of it is not what it seems, and many people are not who they say they are. I personally believe that a lot of the advice given out regarding love and light is designed to make us docile.

I've lost count of the number of 'love n lighters' who have told me there's currently a big battle raging on earth between the dark and the light. I personally think that's true, but hold on a minute, a battle is still a battle, and battles are always ugly, no matter which side you're on.

Ultimately, battles sometimes need to be fought, because otherwise darkness will run amok and just sending love and light will hardly change that.

A South American shaman that I've spent some time with is simply one of the most incredible and loving people I have ever met. A true warrior. But because of who he is, he is often a target for negative forces, as are many people who shine brightly. My shaman friend knows that sending love and light is not always adequate protection. As a last resort he sometimes has to use his powers to prevent himself and others from being harmed. The light sometimes needs to fight the dark.

Ultimately, we're all God just doing what we're doing. Whether we decide to spend 30 years meditating in a cave, or whether we decide to go out there and fight demons, it's all good. It's all part of the cosmic game, and if we decide it's what we're meant to be doing, then it's what we're meant to be doing. Criticism is just God criticising God. Hate is God hating God. Love is God loving God. Or as one of my favourite authors Story Waters put it in The Messiah Seed:

Messiah Seed 52
All

Messiah, know that the mass shared dream can only be realized by your own realization and living of your soul dream. This is the case, no matter what your soul dream is, even if on the surface it appears that your dream is at odds with the mass. Realize that your dream fits perfectly into the mass dream. As you start to live your dream, so you will start to see its part in the overall harmony and motion of the All. You are harmonious with the All, whether you can see it or not.

Know that even those that appear to be purely of service to themselves are being of service to the All. The distinction of service to Self and service to others is an illusion. All service is service to the All. All action is an action for the All. All love is love for the All. All hate is hate for the All. All all is for the All.

To see this is to see that you are free and in a state of limitlessness. To see this is to be without restriction. To see this is to be free from fear. It is to know that all action is right action. Let go of the 'what ifs' for they are hypothetical projections and not reality. Look at your now. Look at the choices on your plate in this moment and know that you can make whatever decisions you want. Realize that, whatever you decide, will be perfect for All and not just for you. Embrace this freedom and know that, even if at this point you are not yet ready to act, then that is right action also.

Realize that just as the deepest desires stem from the desire for limitlessness, so the root of all fear is fear of freedom. In limitlessness there is no plan, no God to rule over you; no necessity for consistency and no direction that is best to follow. There is only your will, and from your will you form all that you experience. Trust your Self to give your Self love and know that all will be loved by that love; all will be freer as a result of your freedom.

http://www.limitlessness.com/

Last edited: 8-09-2006 10:52:24 PM

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Wow indeed!

I have just spent some time reading through the majority of posts on this topic. It was fascinating and exciting to read how everyone interpreted this question and how the discussion has progressed.

I have nothing extra to add at the moment as I think I'm on the same wave length generally but will continue to read other comments and respond as necessary! Thanks to all the HL team, and members, though for making these discussions possible.

An abundance of love and light to you all! x

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This is interesting... (esp. bold paragraph)

Thanks to www.timothyfreke.com

THE ANNIVERSARY OF 9 / 11

AN ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE TO THE UNFOLDING TRAGEDY

As we reach the anniversary of the terrible events of 9/11 I felt moved to send you this inspiring extract from The Laughing Jesus by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. If it touches you, please send it on to your friends and colleagues, to help nurture an alternative response to the unfolding tragedy we are witnessing in the world today.

As long as we live in the ‘us versus them’ world created by the illusion of separateness, we will continue to squabble and fight. We will continue to project the evil within ourselves on to ‘them’. It will always be the other side that is untrustworthy, duplicitous, criminal, inhumane, whilst we are good, honest, legal and loving. It is always be the other guy who is a terrorist, whilst ‘we’ are the freedom fighters.

At a press conference following 9/11 President Bush stated:

'How do I respond when I see that in some Islamic countries there is a vitriolic hatred for America? I'll tell you how I respond. I'm amazed. I just can't believe it because I know how good we are.'

He’s right of course. But only half right. American is a good country. And in many ways it is leading humanity into a new and better world. But America, like every country and every person, has its shadow side. As long as it refuses to acknowledge this, it will continue to project its own ‘evil’ onto the ‘other’. In an ‘us versus them’ world there must always be an evil ‘them’. Just look at how, when the ‘evil empire’ of Soviet Russia fell, a new ‘axis of evil’ was created within a few years to fill the void.

But life can never be reduced to a simple morality tale of the triumph of the good guys over the bad guys, no matter how much Hollywood may want to portray it that way. In reality there are no good guys and bad guys, because we are all a mixture of good and bad. As long as we delude ourselves that evil is ‘out there’ and can be fought ‘out there’, we will never find the solution. The only answer is to recognise that the ‘evil’ is in ourselves. Until we truly absorb the implication of the parable 'let he who is without sin throw the first stone’ we are forever doomed to hurl stones at each other.

From the Gnostic perspective, the first step to healing the present world crisis would be for us to be big enough to understand our enemy’s point of view. As Jesus says in the gospels, we need to stop pointing out the speck of dust in our opponent’s eye and acknowledge the great plank of wood in our own. We need to seek out and humbly acknowledge everything we have done to divide ‘them’ from ‘us’. We have to make amends for our own failings, whilst forgiving our adversaries. We have to trust even where trust has been betrayed. And love even where love has been rejected. We need to refuse to play the game of winners and losers, and make it clear that we can only win together.

Following the atrocity of 9/11 a wave of sympathy for America swept the world, and was just as quickly squandered. It could all have been so different. Imagine if the American president had addressed the world in the authentic spirit of the original Christians:

‘The American people are hurt and shocked by these terrible attacks on our country. But as a culture rooted in the Christian tradition, it is in such dark times that we must draw on our deepest wisdom, which teaches us to have faith in the power of love and forgiveness. In The New Testament Jesus teaches that we should forgive those who wrong us and turn the other cheek. He declares “You have heard it said ‘an eye for an eye’ but I say ‘love your enemies’". Only love can heal hate. Suffering is redeemed only when it motivates us to make things better. Therefore, even though our hearts are breaking and filled with anger, we will not take revenge. Instead we will try to forgive those who have hurt us so badly and do all we can to make amends. We invite all of you who consider us to be your enemy to come and talk with us. Let us sit around a table and settle once and for all the differences between us. Help us to prove beyond doubt that we are not the enemy of anyone. If we have been guilty of causing suffering and pain, tell us what we can do to make things right. We will continue to nurture our dream. A dream that one day little Muslim boys and girls will be able to join hands with little Jewish boys and girls, and little Christian boys and girls, as sisters and brothers. Come and help us make that dream a reality.’

What would have happened if the President of America had responded in this way? The world would have changed forever. It would have signalled a completely new way of conducting politics. We would have turned a monumental corner in the evolution of consciousness.


From The Laughing Jesus by Freke and Gandy

www.timothyfreke.com

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Nah, the world wouldn't have changed just because one man talks about the values of love and forgiveness - it's been done before. The world will also not be changed through the political system, which is merely a symptom of the bigger problem. Not everyone in the world is on the same level spiritually, and not everyone is capable of feats of love and forgiveness. Many people are still stuck firmly into ages-old belief systems that continue to promote hatred of others, and the cycles of violence will inevitably continue. Nothing short of a global spiritual awakening will change that, and I think the odds of my winning the lottery are better than those of such an event ever taking place. You can love the nasty buggers in the world if you choose to do so, but they don't care one way or another. Here's another quotation attributed to Jesus Christ, from Matthew 7:6 in the New Testament of the Bible:

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet."

Best to project your love towards those that will accept and cherish it, and not at those for whom it holds so little value. You can allow them to be what they are without agreeing with the things that they do. They simply don't know any better, and perhaps they never will.

And it's okay to point out the things that they do that aren't working. It's even okay to make generalizations like "the present political system is a part of the problem, not a part of the solution." The wisdom comes in the realization that the solution lies not in attacking the problem, but in creating something different for yourself.

Last edited: 12-09-2006 01:15:47 PM

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Hey this might help...
(Good old Stuie)

The Law of Allowing by Stuart Wilde, September 11th, 2006

from www.stuartwilde.com

In a world where everyone likes to insist they are right and people judge and interfere all the time, the law of allowing stands apart as a spiritual idea.

In essence, it says that we ought to live and let live and allow others whatever perspective they wish, even if one thinks that perspective is very wrong. The way to practice the law of allowing is to agree with people you don’t agree with

Watching the news in the US one can see how they pump their views relentlessly. Fox News for example is a crass propaganda show, it has very little to do with the impartial disseminating of the days’ events. The power of a TV show to influence people to accept evil war-like ideas is a great shame. It is a global fault of the western ego to think others have to be like us, and it is a part of your maturity to allow others to be different.

When you watch the ludicrous nature of Blair and Bush with his Redneck Reich insisting on democracy, it looks so much like the southern preachers on TV that offer hell and damnation to all that don’t agree. Democracy never did anything for workers in the west, it has been a terrible disappointment for the most part; all it ever gave us was crippling laws and various political shades of the Fat Controllers. Why does anyone think it might help the Iraqis? Daft…such silliness.

Wouldn’t it be great if the law of allowing was installed and people didn’t have to be ruled by democracy’s endless stream of psychopaths, and people could be allowed to rule themselves. That is a novel idea. Imagine being able to think of your own accord without some redneck bovver boy from Fox News telling you what’s what and what is permissible and what is not.

I have always seen spirituality and individuality as the same thing, the act of developing a new consciousness, one that is original, and then the law of allowing follows naturally, whereby you allow the same individuality and freedom to others. Allowing is benevolent and warm, while insisting is ugly and nasty. And when people have to conform to some silly politician, or to a religious idea then that is usually someone’s ego in the act of empire building, corralling sheep.

And while it may pleasure the ego of those involved in these power trips it’s not a spiritual idea, as the truly spiritual man or woman is not keen on entrapment and empire building, they want to see people as creative and free.

To become that way yourself you have to offer it to others, that is why the law of allowing is a sophisticated idea. Of course, the first beneficiary of your law of allowing must be yourself because, if you are controlling and vindictive towards yourself, you become your own Fat Controller with supreme power over your life.

In letting others free you allow yourself to become more free. Nice

©Stuart Wilde 2006
www.stuartwilde.com

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And your comments, Philip, are EXACTLY what love is all about. You say you are "a very strong Christian and that your beliefs may be counter to many on this board" - but you came here - I know quite a few Christians who have no understanding, and do not wish to understand, alternative belief systems (it's all hocus pocus!!) - you are open to others beliefs, whether is it religious and or political.
That is tolerance, that is open-mindedness, that is unconditional love.
Thank you.

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religion itself is a fundamental part of the problem

let's be clear about this [and hopefully stimulate some useful discussion as well]

faith-based religion is divisive and dangerous

Before you disagree with me, i recommend reading both Sam Harris' The End of Faith, and Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

As an athiest [in the traditional sense of the word - one who does not subscribe to a belief in deities] i consider myself in good company. Buddha was an athiest in the true sense of the word - and his teachings have done far more to promote peaceful co-existence than either the progenitors or interpretors of any of the above religions.

Traditional Christian, Moslem and Hebrew texts [to name the majors] cite their 'god' as the only god - a belief that, at best, means most of the world's population is poorly informed, and at worst means that they need to convert or perish.

There is simply no way around this - we can't all be right.

Religion is unsubstantiated and irrational. How does believing that Christ was born of a virgin, or that if you die as a martyr to your religion you will be welcomed into paradise with 67 virgins, or that eating an unleavened cracker will save your 'soul' [wherever that can be found] support a compassionate world view?

A belief in and worship of God - just as before there was a belief in Zeus, or Poseidon or the Sun - is a way of being that has had it's time and has been found lacking in supporting a more humane way of being.

I think it's time we started discussing this more seriously, and considering the very real consequences we are faced with on a daily basis for being tolerant of contradictory and irrational beliefs in our midst.

cameron

Last edited: 18-01-2007 02:58:10 AM

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